"From the last three lines of your post, I'm assuming you are applying the "better safe than sorry" mentality to life-rights over all of time. This addresses points 3) and 5) of my post on Wed 5/15, but does not address points 1),…"
I Power
Scientific Research & Self-Development Activism
In group morality, out group hostility
I'd like to add this discussion about something that really bothers me about people. It's the idea of in group morality, out group hostility. I think I read about this concept in Richard Dawkins's book, "The God Delusion". The idea is that groups behave differently towards each other than they would towards someone who is in the "out group". An example of this would be with religion. I'll use Christianity as the example as I live in the U.S. where Christianity is the dominant religion. The "out group" for Christianity would primarily be atheists as they are the least trusted group in this country. Now being an atheist for over a decade now with my own experience with this and in recent years meeting more atheists online with the stories they have to tell there is a lot of disdain for atheists by Christians (though the feelings are mutual a lot of the time). I'll just stick with my own personal experience. I have an aunt who basically thinks I'm the Antichrist, or at the very least I know she believes I'm under the influence of Satan. We have had a very toxic relationship ever since something happened between me and her family. I don't really remember how she found out but I know that she is the first member of my extended family to find out I'm an atheist. Any who I did go through some religious phases and I noticed she is only really willing to talk to me when I'm in a religious phase.
Now growing up I didn't really have an "in" group, I did hang out with the goths in middle/high school but I wasn't hardcore into the black everything, ie makeup. Not really being able to relate to people my "out group" included almost everyone (especially Shiznit, man I hate that guy). This misanthropy has continued into the present day and does eat away at me a lot. Now I think a lot of people can be like this. They are in my position, or something similar, hate their job, perceive everyone around them to be stupid ect.
I think this hostility to "out groups" is the cause of a lot of misunderstanding in society. All the bitterness it causes towards each other. Lately I've been trying to transcend this hostility within myself though this has been very hard as I am a zealous fighter. I've always felt better about my life when I had an enemy to combat.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by steven.a.a.bauer on -
We are becoming so diverse that we are losing our ability to find common ground. As good as the television and the internet are for communication, they also have a downside because the loudest, and most polarizing voices usually get the air time. We need to promote the scientific method and critical thinking skills. I think if we don't, we will backwards rationalize ourselves to destruction. People don't understand how dangerous it is to try and prove preconceived ideas from the loudest voices before observing the situation and thinking for themselves. As for your enemy to combat, maybe this is what you need to fight for. I doubt it will go away any time soon and this way you'd be fighting something and not someone.
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Permalink Reply by Lore on -
"We need to promote the scientific method and critical thinking skills." +1 to that. I live in Indiana so it's a pretty backwards state here in the U.S. it might as well be part of the Bible belt. It's pretty racist here and I hate that because I have black family members.
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Permalink Reply by The Shiznit on -
lol
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Permalink Reply by steven.a.a.bauer on
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Permalink Reply by The Shiznit on
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lmao
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Permalink Reply by Lore on
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Anyways, I think that getting over this hostility is a challenge because it has been the norm for so long. I do think that it helps that, for the most part, I have a forgiving nature. Let's face it though, if I didn't have a forgiving nature there would be none of you left. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there like me that are pissed off at everyone or like the topic have been taught to hate their out group.
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Permalink Reply by steven.a.a.bauer on
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I'm not exactly happy with everyone either. But at the same time, I can't blame all of them (some of them I will). When most people listen to whoever is feeding them information and don't bother to use their brain, it's tough for me to get mad at them if they've never been lied to on a serious level. The brain learns through experience and if they haven't had the experience of catching someone in authority in a big lie (I mean someone big like the gov, religious institutions, etc) then I don't really expect them to question things quite as closely and out of fear and self preservation will shut down to the truth. And let's say they do question them closely, what if they do it the wrong way? If they're like most people I know (like I used to be too), they observe after forming a preconceived idea (when they should be doing it the other way around) and don't even know that their lie detector system is on backwards.
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Permalink Reply by Lore on
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Good points Steven. I think a lot of people just don't want to get out of their comfort zone. They live their lives in a bubble and feel threatened by anyone who might "pop" the bubble so to speak.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony D on -
Your discussion includes the ingroup/outgroup effect, a very interesting concept from social psychology. To a certain extent you are right - and it has been hypothesized that the Israel Palestine conflict and racial inequality all over the world is due to this effect.
However, there is something very important to note about the group effect. For one thing, while it never fails to occur, it does occur in varying strengths. The consistency of this effect is attributed to the fact that we tend to know a lot about our own in-group, but for the purposes of simplifying our worldview and for practical purposes, we stereotype the out-group as one whole rather than as a series of indiviuals.
So looking into the problems that you find in your personal life with this effect, take this into consideration. When we are presented with people that we consider an out-group, we tend to make assumptions based on the group that they belong to. What we often fail to realise is that if we look at different criteria, people can be much more pleasant.
I'll give you an example from my own life. My personal beliefs are atheistic. I was on this train and met a group of missionaries who were teaching Czech kids English. I talked to them for several hours, and I was constantly avoiding sensitive topics such as metaphysics but also stuff that might be considered blasphemous.. Until one of them started talking about music. Within half an hour she had told me she was an ac/dc and Iron Maiden fan - two bands i like as well. To note this, we are talking about a christian that listens to highway to hell and 666 the number of the beast. My point is, at first i considered this person a christian and I made assumptions about that (she was outgroup). But looking at the criterion of music taste we were both rockers.
So my point is this, in reality there is no such thing as just being christian, or athiest, or a jazz fan, or rocker. If you talk to people/groups long enough, there is always something to connect on.
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Permalink Reply by The Shiznit on
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I think it would be interesting to see a discussion about in-group / out-group effects in how they relate to nationalism and patriotism. As was pointed out in this article that Sorlaize linked in another thread recently,
Staging World War 3 For A Mutually Desired Outcome
there really is no benefit for the major superpowers in this world in conducting direct warfare with each other, so the governments and businesses involved in instigating and profiting from warfare today do so by propagandizing ideological labels and fighting in the backyards of smaller countries instead. As with the "Cold-War", for example, the U.S. would never have engaged in a direct conflict with the USSR or China, because there would be no real benefit in that; so instead, the governments and businesses involved create labels and say, "We're fighting Communism;" {or Capitalism;} and then conduct their conflicts in Korea or Viet Nam instead. And now today we have "the war on terror;" {which sounds really ominous, doesn't it?} so that it doesn't look like we're fighting any particular nation, {like Iraq,} but are instead fighting something else. But what, exactly? An idea?
In any case, you really need a strong sense of nationalism and patriotism on the part of the masses to pull this kind of shit off; so I think much of it is manufactured and propagated by the governments and businesses involved in initiating the conflicts; because when you really think about it, all of that flag-waving is really silly. What are you really saying when you do that anyway? "My nation is better than your nation; and so that gives us the right to bomb the shit out of you until you become more like us!" (?)
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