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Rule #1 for I-Power - If you write long comments, as I sometimes do, write them in a text file first and save them, because Ning will eat them.  lol  

This post is actually a very long comment that I constructed in response to a recent discussion thread on the site titled, "Is there an action that is not driven by selfishness?"  And I had to turn my response into a separate post of my own because the comments that I made were too extensive and our service provider, Ning, has an unknown length-cap for comments.  Take care that you heed this if you ever decide to write a very long comment yourself some day, because I and many other members here have sometimes spent a lot of effort writing things on this site only to see our entire efforts flushed down the toilet w/o warning.  :-)

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My comments and answer to the above-mentioned post & question are/were as follows: 

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I'm glad to see that you returned and started contributing recently, Ole; and I really like this post, although I do think that you could have written it better.  You made a quick blend of several related subjects, but failed to draw the connecting lines for everybody; so I'm afraid that most people are very likely to read what you wrote and end up scratching their heads wondering what question it was, exactly, that you were trying to get answered.  Or what point you may be trying to make.  And you really should have left the whole thing about the "bushmen tribes in Africa" being consciously responsive to the events of 9/11 out of your post completely.  You kinda "blew it" by throwing that little curve-ball in there. lol  The majority of I-Power members really despise unsubstantial claims like that.  Most of us like to think of ourselves as being pretty scientific around here.  :-)

But with all that being said, I still liked the post.  You touched on a few things that I, and many others in the community are fascinated with - some of them being cursorily addressed by Reese & Chiren in the Theory of Everything documentary that they produced & released last year.  

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I think that the central core of your questioning could probably be summed up quite nicely with the more simple question: "What am I?"  Which is, of course, a question that we human beings have been futilely trying to answer since we became self-aware.  And while many religions claim to have found the answer to that question, I do not believe that any of them actually have; and the people who tend to piss me off the most in this world are the self-righteous and arrogant bastards who confidently believe that their answer is the right one and that everybody else is wrong.  :-D 

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Some things are sure.  I mean, we can pretty much all agree that we are "alive"... which is to say that we are living beings, and that the condition of being "alive" is a very substantial aspect of our conscious awareness.  Even those who believe that our consciousness {or soul} will survive the grave would have to agree that the "soul" itself was therefore "alive" - which is why we all commonly refer to such an event as "life after death."  Where things start to get confusing is when we start to ask ourselves what life actually is?  Questions like, "When does life really begin?" and "What makes our hearts beat?" and "When does a baby in the womb become consciously self-aware?"

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One aspect of all of this that I have personally been pondering about for quite a while now involves the idea that "I" am a lot more than simply the sum of my physical parts.  Which is to say, for example, that I do not need my legs or my hands to be "Me."  Although I am pretty sure that I do need my liver and my brain.  lol  But anyway, the idea is that while "I" obviously consist of a collection of organized, living cells, which all work together in harmony for the purpose of sustaining both their own individual well-being as well as the collective well-being of my body as a whole... the question that intrigues me so much is, "Where does this organized cooperation begin? and where does it end?"  In other words, the individual cells in my body do cooperate with each other, to be sure... but what causes them do so?  Does this concept of organized cooperation for mutual benefit begin at a chemical level?  At an atomic level?  A sub-atomic level?  And since we as human beings obviously cooperate with both each other, as well as with "nature" {or our environments}  in order to survive and to thrive... Where does this concept of cooperation for mutual benefit end?  Does it end at the level of local ecosystems?  At a global level?  Or does it continue and exist as a Cosmic phenomena? 

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Not easy questions to answer, you see?  :-D

In fact, I'm not personally convinced that we will ever be able to confidently answer them on our own... but I do think that perhaps intelligent and self-aware computers in the future may figure it all out for us.  lol

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In any case, I have become pretty convinced over the years that "I" am more than just my body.  And although I'm fairly certain that my consciousness is entirely dependent upon the survival and proper functioning of my brain, I am also convinced that my brain could not function independently from the support of other parts of my body, or independently from the support that my body derives from the environment in which I exist.  Which is a very long way of addressing your question about whether human beings are capable of truly unselfish behavior.  If we consider the interdependence and cooperation that our own physical bodies demonstrate in the process of staying alive, I believe that the answer to your question would be both Yes, and  No.  :-D

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The cells and organs of my body act in ways that ensure their own health and survival; but they also cooperate with each other for mutual benefit, and for the benefit of my body as a whole;  and cells that do not behave in this cooperative manner and which go "rogue" on us are what we commonly call cancerous.  Perhaps w/o being aware of their own dysfunction, those cells lead to dis-ease of the body; sickness; and death.  Also, on a larger scale, the entire Earth and its unique ecosystems also operates in a cooperative manner.  Does that mean that the planet itself is consciously aware?  I do not know.  And I don't think anybody does.  We would all have to agree, however, that this planet we live on supports life... but again, where does that "life" start?  What causes it?  and where does it end?  It is a mind-blowing concept, but if we were to look at human beings as being like cells in a much larger organism, then perhaps even the Universe itself is conscious, and we are just too small {like the individual cells in our own bodies} to be aware of the part that we all play in the larger scheme of things.  :-D

And maybe... just maybe... we are like a cancer to it.  lol

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I should also make it very clear here that I am not a New Age spiritualist.  I think most of the things that are associated with that movement are utter nonsense and bullshit... but they could perhaps be "on to something" when it comes to the idea of a Consciousness that is larger than our own.  ;-)

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For further reference and contemplation, I recommend the following: 

Anima Mundi

Cosmic Consciousness

The Gaia Hypothesis

The Global Consciousness Project

I-Power's Global Consciousness Group

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P.S. - Also, regarding Selfishness and Altruism... Making the world a better place by changing ourselves first is what I-Power is all about.  I just thought I should throw that in there.  hehehehe

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And I'll end with a quotation from one of our founding members which might become a household catch-phrase some day:  "God is in the neurons." -- Bachir Boumaaza

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Views: 174

Tags: Altruism, Benefit, Conscious, Consciousness, Cooperation, Death, God, Life, Selfish, Selfishness, More…Soul

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Comment by Bart Skraeling on April 9, 2012 at 10:07pm

thx for mentioning this in the chatroom, or else i might never have read it

Comment by March E. on January 29, 2012 at 7:38pm

I like your post about altruism. You make a good point about how the organs in your body need to ensure their own surivival at the same time cooperate with all the other organs in the body. If all the organs in the body decided to just compete and dominate each other, the whole body would collapse and die. It's a fairly simple fact of nature which people tend to overlook. People keep thinking that it's survival of the fittest and competition for dominance that makes a species successful, but that isn't exactly true if you look at what happens when one species completely overtakes another. Things go out of balance, food runs out, and then the once successful, dominant species dies out. 

Humans have evolved as a social species which means that human beings have the need for trust and companionship as well as basic material needs. Social species meaning that we have survived and adapted to the world by cooperating with others to put it simply. So, not only is it "morally right" or "spiritual" to be altruistic and empathic, it makes sense to be altruistic and empathic in order to better understand others and to foster cooperation rather than dominant, self-serving behavior. 

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